if you have the right tax policy, liberalize corporate taxes, liberalized regulatory policy. if you let business in this country and small business grow. if you have a dream, a vision, an idea of empowerment and ownership and opportunity for everybody, that's the way to do this. that's the growth message. now, your man has the message. he just doesn't have the policy. that's the problem on the democratic side. >> well, i mean, here's -- i think there's -- with respect to the republicans, i know they like to make the argument that we're right about the policies. and somehow we lost an election. they lost the election because the american people did not buy their message or the policies. >> i agree with that. it was a very negative, very pessimistic message. and the issue of, look, reaching out to immigrants, reaching out to hispanics, let's use that. the difference between what jack kemp does -- did and the difference between what the republicans do today, kemp didn't reach out for the sake of winning a vote. he said to them, i'm going to create enterprise zones that are tax-f